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신비주의자

영속. 덱당 1장 한정. 덱 구성 시에만 구매 가능.

캠페인 모드에서 매 시나리오를 마친 후, 다음 시나리오를 시작하기 전에 당신이 처음으로 향상하는 카드 2장의 경험치 비용을 1씩 낮춥니다.

당신이 새롭게 구매하는 카드의 경험치 비용을 1씩 높입니다.

Derek D. Edgell
지구의 끝자락 조사자 확장 #59.
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FAQs

(from the official FAQ or responses to the official rules question form)
  • Q: How is Down the Rabbit Hole supposed to interact with Exile cards, Deck Size changes, or other effects where a deck isn't full during between-scenario-purchasing? Based on the rule: If 1 or more cards are forcibly removed from an investigator’s deck and returned to the collection (such as when a card is exiled, or when a campaign effect forces an investigator to remove cards from their deck), that investigator must purchase cards so that a legal deck size is maintained. When purchasing cards in this manner, that investigator may purchase level 0 cards at 0 experience cost until a legal deck size is reached. I can see interpretations where the cost is 0 (+1 for Down the Rabbit Hole) per empty-card-replacement, or where "at 0 experience" reads as "without paying an experience cost". If the intent is for empty card-slot replacements to cost 1xp, what happens if the player doesn't have enough XP to refill their deck? Again, I see two possibilities: Pay all of your XP, effectively paying as much as you can; or If a deck cannot afford to buy itself back to full, the character becomes unplayable, so start a new deck. A: Fair question; no, Down the Rabbit Hole would not require an investigator to spend additional XP when needing to purchase level 0 cards to maintain a legal deck size. Those level 0 cards would cost 0 XP until the investigator has reached a legal deck size again.

  • Q: How do Adaptable, Down the Rabbit Hole and Arcane Research interact with Innsmouth scenarios and interludes where experience is not allowed to be spent? A: You can use Adaptable in between any scenarios in Innsmouth. You cannot use Arcane Research or Down the Rabbit Hole during times you cannot spend XP – essentially, you are unable to “upgrade” cards at these times, even at a discount.

  • Q: I have a question about interaction between Customizable cards and the card Down the Rabbit Hole. If I upgrade a customizable card, for example "Power Word" ( I have two copies of this card in my deck) after completion of the campaign scenario, can I reduce experience cost of upgrading Power Word by 2 points ( it counts as first 2 cards I upgrade) or only by 1 point ( it counts as upgrading only one card)? A: Only 1; Down the Rabbit Hole’s discount must be applied to 2 different cards. Upgrading Power Word by using its upgrade sheet only counts as upgrading “1 card”, even if the upgrade applies to multiple copies of the card.

  • Q: Can Down the Rabbit Hole reduce the experience cost to upgrade a customizable card (introduced in The Scarlet Keys Investigator Expansion)? A: Yes. Spending experience on a customizable card’s upgrade sheet counts as upgrading that card. You may only use Down the Rabbit Hole’s effect once per customizable card when upgrading between scenarios. - FAQ, v.2.1, August 2023

  • Q: When purchasing level 0 cards to reach legal deck size, does Down the Rabbit Hole increase the cost to purchase those cards? A: No, when purchasing level 0 cards to reach a legal deck size, those cards cost 0 XP until reaching a legal deck size again, even if the investigator has included Down the Rabbit Hole in their deck. - FAQ, v.2.1, August 2023

  • Q: If I have a Customizable card in my deck, assuming I don’t mark checkboxes, but purchase the card directly, does it cost 1 experience extra to purchase a second copy of that card? A: Yes, it would cost 1 XP extra to add a new copy. (August 2023)

  • Q: If I have a Customizable card in my deck, but I removed it, then purchase it back later, does it cost 1 experience extra? A: Yes, adding a removed card back into your deck counts as it being a “new” card, and it would cost 1 XP extra. (August 2023)

  • Q: If I purchase a new level 0 customizable card during a campaign, do I need to spend an extra point of experience A: Yes, it would cost 1 XP extra. (August 2023)

  • Q: If I directly purchase one or more copies of a new customizable card with one or more upgrades during a campaign, do I need to spend an extra point of experience? A: Yes. (August 2023)

  • Q: After each scenario of a campaign, is it possible to just use the effect of DtRH for free to mark 1 checkboxes on the upgrade sheet before the next scenario without spending any experience? A: Yes, with Down the Rabbit Hole, you may mark 1 checkbox on an upgrade sheet without spending XP (once per upgrade sheet between scenarios). (August 2023)

  • Q: In our playgroup, we are discussing how the interaction between Adaptable and Down the Rabbit Hole works. When a scenario ends, is it possible to swap a card in the deck for a new card with Adaptable and immediately upgrade it to a higher level version, reducing its cost with Down the Rabbit Hole? A: Yes. Down the Rabbit Hole creates a lasting effect from the end of one scenario to the beginning of the next. Once you’ve swapped the level 0 cards with Adaptable, you can upgrade those cards with a discount using Down the Rabbit Hole’s ability. (Rules Form, December 2023)

Last updated

Reviews

I notice that a lot of the discussion I see about this is in regards to actually gaining XP from Down the Rabbit Hole (DtRH), but I think it has more to offer than that.

DtRH offers more than just some savings on XP, and I think the important thing to realize here is that you don't need to have a net positive XP gain, or even net 0. I'm of the opinion that this card is amazingly good even when it costs you XP. That might seem counter intuitive, but I prefer to look at this as acceleration for your deck's power at the start of the campaign. If it saves you XP on (for example) the first three scenarios, and you don't go negative until scenario 5 or 6, that means you're above the XP curve on 5 of the 8 scenarios, and only below for the last 2 or 3.

I think this is an amazing advantage of DtRH, since Arkham is a game where a lot of the difficulty is in the early scenarios, before your deck has all of the cards that it needs, and thus where you have more limited options. Additionally, early game XP means you're better equipped to take all the XP from those early scenarios, which means you indirectly get even more XP from DtRH. This means you can snowball into the late game with XP for your entire party, and with several good scenario resolutions under your belt.

This is opposed to the late game, where you probably already have a solid deck, and so can afford to take a penalty on the cards you purchase because you're going to feel that a lot less. Another way to look at this is that getting +1 or +2 XP when you only have ~10-20 XP is a %10 increase, where as in the late game where you can have 60+ XP, the penalty of +1 XP per card is just a lower percent of that.

In the end, I see this card as not being too dissimilar to early promoting in Fire Emblem. You're trading your potential late game power for an early game advantage. I think in Arkham (as in the Fire Emblem games I've played) that's a trade that will work out better for you in the long run.

Whimsical · 29

This card is a cool replacement for Arcane Research, or a nice boost to it, depending on your upgrade line. HOWEVER, It is an anti-fun card.

This card essentially makes it so you build a deck with a bunch of purchasable upgrades, and reduces your desire to get new cards. Now you could see it as offsetting the new cards, by only buying 1 new card a scenario, and upgrading atleast 1 card, leading to a net 1xp gain. For "every mystic deck ever" archetypes this card is strong.

However, If you enjoy breaking the mystic mould I see this as a detriment. This card keeps you on the straight and narrow, upgrade your Shrivelling, Rite of Seeking, Mists of R'lyeh. Grabs you Recharge, Arcane Initiate, and Ward of Protection, Grotesque Statue, Robes of Endless Nightand have at it. I just see this as dull. Don't get me wrong those cards are all core because of how powerful they are and I would take them and this upgrade into a difficulty spike campaign i.e. trying to beat expert or complete achievements, but for standard this is a buzzkill.

Is this card good or bad? as a mystic running your typical build this card is insane, as someone who loves pure xp it's insane value, but as someone who enjoys trying new builds and playing with non typical cards this isn't the card for you.

, · 527

This card is about to increase in value with the reveal of the Customizable keyword in the Scarlet Keys cycle. The details of this keyword were recently revealed (https://twitter.com/NatsunoYoru/status/1545188668570214400) on Twitter by MJ Newman.

Now, simply including a card like Hunter's Armor will provide you with seven different upgrade options - each one easily discounted by 1XP with Down the Rabbit Hole. And that's only one of the customizable cards we've seen so far! Customizable cards will also scale better than many other cards in the game, lowering the requirement for you to purchase new cards in the first place.

snacc · 975
It still does not alter a lot with the bottle neck of discounts. You still can only discount two cards by one, and other upgrades benefit from not costing extra. Not to say, that is not useful, but if you have some core upgrades without level 0 card, like "Relic Hunter", "Grotesque Statue" or "Cyclopian Hammer", you will still gladly pay the extra XP for it. If you purchase only 1 card a new per scenario, you still get a net discount of 1. And if you delay new cards to later scenarios and start with upgrades by name, you get a pretty nice speed advantage of your deck upgrades. (Early XP are worth more, because you get use from them in more games.) I'm not saying, the Customizable cards are bad targets for DtRH, but Mystics in particular had plenty of other good targets before, so they are not strictly a necessary enabler for this card. But thanks for sharing the Customizable rules for us not twittering players here. Got a like from me for that. — Susumu · 351

I wonder, how this card interacts with (non-level 0) Myriad cards. Initially I thought, they should cost +3 XP, if you take a set of three. But the rule for Myriad states: Additionally, when you purchase a myriad card for your deck, you may purchase up to two additional copies of that card (at the same level) at no experience cost. Because "no" is not a numeric like "0", you could add to, I do now think, that you can replace cards into them just for +1 XP.

Susumu · 351
I think your interpretation is correct. — SGPrometheus · 776
AFAIK that's correct. Those cards have a cost, that cost would be increased by DtRH, but the myriad rules mean you don't pay any cost for the additional cards. — CombStranger · 249

I want to love this card. It feeds my munchkin brain in a good way!

In theory, even if you buy cards that are new for your deck, it will still be worth it if your original decklist features enough upgradeable cards.

For every 2 upgraded cards, a new card can be added while maintaining advantage. If you want to have the highest experience advantage, you need 14 upgrade cards in a regular 8 game campaign. If you merely want to stay neutral or above, then you'd be able to add 13 card in the same scenario. That would make you gain 14 upgrade exp with a 13 exp penalty for adding new cards (which would still be net-positive).

This card rewards pre-emptive planning and deckbuilding and gives more experience very early on.

Kantarak · 17
Play as Dexter Drake, and combine with a pair of Arcane Researches, In The Thick Of It, and Charon's Obol, for a potential net 43 bonus XP over an 8-game campaign! — HanoverFist · 689
Every side quest also counts, right? That would be a crazy amont of XP... I think cards which upgrades several times like Emergency Cash are espacially useful — Miroque · 23
Dexter also has access to Let God Sort Them Out for even more bonus XP. — puert · 48

How does this card interact with buying new Lvl 0 cards? I'm playing a campaign RN and it's not exactly clear so I can't be trusted to be impartial about it.

From Campaign Play in the rules reference: Each card costs experience equal to the card's level, to a minimum of 1 (purchasing a level zero card still costs 1 experience). The number of pips beneath a card's cost indicates the card's level.

Additionally, from 1.8 "Game Play" in the FAQ: When purchasing a new card during campaign play, an investigator must pay a minimum of 1 experience. As a result, level 0 cards cost 1 experience to purchase. This minimum only applies when purchasing new cards. It does not permanently alter a card’s level or experience cost, and does not apply when upgrading a card to a higher level version.

The way that I read it, as specified by the FAQ, Lvl 0 cards cost 0 XP, but because the cost of adding a new card to your deck must be at least 1, the cost is brought up to 1. My question is this -- does the increased price from DtRH apply to the 0-XP cost of adding a Lvl 0 card before the 1-cost minimum is checked, and if so, does having the price increased from 0 to 1 satisfy the 1-cost minimum? All told, does adding a new Lvl 0 card to your deck with DtRH cost 1 XP or 2?

I think it costs 2exp, except you have adaptable. — Pawiu14 · 183
It's not clear, but I would go with your reading and say it costs 1xp — because adding L0 cards only cost 1xp *as a result* of the min 1 xp requirement. Therefore, the 1xp cost from DtRH should satisfy it. — suika · 9304
According to the rules for modifiers the calculation of the required experience happens bevor you check the minimum costs. — Tharzax · 1
If I upgrade 2 cards at -2xp between them, can I upgrade two other cards at +/- 0? Do those count as "purchasing new cards"? Or would you assume that they count as upgrades, just not at a discount? — morkmork · 13
I am happy that I can answer that now. I contacted FFG via the official contact form on their website and I got a response: Hello X, Thank you for taking interest in Arkham Horror: The Card Game. To answer your question(s): It’s true that level 0 cards cost a minimum of 1 experience to purchase—but also note, this ruling does not permanently alter a card’s experience cost. With “Down the Rabbit Hole” already increasing the experience cost for you to purchase new cards by 1, it is able to fulfill the requirement of making level 0 cards cost at least 1 XP. In summary, you would still only pay 1 XP for level 0 cards you are purchasing. Feel free to reach out to us if any more questions arise! Sincerely, Y — dr31ns5mf · 1
I don't understand. Adding level 0 cards costs 1xp. DTRH increases adding new cards by 1xp. So it should be 2xp surely. Why is it only 1? — Lobstrocity · 2
@dr31ns5mf Hello! Can you share and forward the official ruling email (including questions and answers) you received to arkhamdbfaqs@gmail.com? This is the mailbox of the official FAQ maintainer, and they will update the ruling you received into ArkhamDB! — Jacksonsu · 1
@Lobstrocity It's about when the +1xp cost kicks in. A level 0 card costs 0xp. Normally you pay 1xp because the rules say adding a card costs a minimum of 1xp. However with DTRH you upgrade the base cost of the card from 0xp to 1xp BEFORE you check to see if it's reached the minimum.It feels weird because at face value it looks like it's negating the drawback of the card, but they expect you to get all your level 0 cards for free when building your deck. DTRH is meant to make you commit to your upgraded deck early in exchange for a faster path to get there. It wants you to take — TenDM · 1

I can't help but notice that Edge of the Earth comes with a lot of level 1+ cards that can be upgraded further. This includes a whole Spell suite, like Divination (1) and Divination (4), which are also good with Arcane Research, but then also stuff like On the Trail (1) and On the Trail (3) and Ice Pick (1) and Ice Pick (3), among others. This synergizes with the investigators in this set that have very limited access to their "off-class" level 0 cards, but also seems like an interesting puzzle with Down the Rabbit Hole. Lily Chen can take this card and use it to discount the upgrade from Butterfly Swords (2) to Butterfly Swords (5), and Norman Withers can do the same for Blur (1) to Blur (4), although it will take one of his 5 Mystic Level 0 slots.

But considering the drawback of this card, is it worth it? You'll pay an extra XP just to get the new Level 1 card in your deck, and get refunded that penalty when you upgrade. Net XP, zero. Ideally, you need to have 14 cards to upgrade in a 8-scenario campaign to get the full value here (we'll see how Edge of the Earth's supposedly different campaign structure affects this), so you'd better really want those non-Level 0 upgradable cards. The EOTE investigators don't really have any other options, though, because Lily & Norman don't have that many Level 0 cards that they could take that upgrade into cards of their "off" class. So, frankly, this card anti-synergizes with the investigators in the box. Your only out is to take In the Thick of It and some trauma for three Level 1 cards, but there still aren't going to be enough cards to upgrade. Strange. But it makes me think we'll have future cards that give you an XP bonus for upgrading cards, without this particular drawback, or more ways to start your deck with non-level 0 cards.

Other Mystics & off-class Mystics should consider this card, though, because of the variety of upgrades now available, including in this set. Daisy Walker can get a discount on upgrading Professor William Webb, and take In the Thick of It to get the upgrade for Eon Chart, among other things. And Father Mateo, starting with an extra 5 XP can spread it out across five Level 1 Spells and get a further discount with an Arcane Research or two, or maybe just spend your starting XP on cards you can't upgrade and don't want the penalty on, and use your Down the Rabbit Hole to upgrade Guts and Robes of Endless Night. Up to you!

dscarpac · 807
Upon further consideration, Lily has plenty of targets with this card with a full collection, since Neutral cards like Overpower have a Guardian upgrade, and Holy Rosary switches classes in its upgrade. You may also want an Emergency Cache or two that can be upgraded. Take In the Thick of It to pick up two Brand of Cthughas at deck creation, five level 0 Guardian cards that can be upgraded (there are plenty), two Enchanted Blades, two Holy Rosarys, and then a Neutral card of your choice to round out the 14 upgradeable cards. This might not be the strongest Lily deck but it will work. — dscarpac · 807
@dscarpac i'm also hearing that rabbit hole's line "Increase the experience cost for you to purchase new cards by 1." will not make taking 3 level-1 cards at deck creation possible, because they'll each cost +1 to take. No official word on this, but I hear because it's on a separate line than the "After each scenario of a campaign..." line, it also applies to — Renmabo · 556
I don't see why it wouldn't work. Just "purchase" Down the Rabbit Hole last when you build your deck. Additionally, the level 1 cards aren't "new" cards: there never were any other cards in that deck slot to begin with. — dscarpac · 807
it does say — shikasshadow · 1
so see if get this right. If i was to purchase level 1 Book of shadows it would cost me 2XP but after the next scenario i was going to Purchase Leve3 book of shadows it would cost me anything because of Down the rabbit Hole, saving me 1xp. Do i have this wrong? — Invisiblecam · 1
The upgrade process only cares about the difference in level between the two cards. No matter how much XP you spent to purchase a Level 1 card, going from Level 1 to Level 3 will cost you 2 XP. Down the Rabbit Hole will discount that by 1. So yes, overall you'll end up paying 3 XP, which is still cheaper than buying the Level 3 card outright, which would have cost you 4 XP if you have this card. — dscarpac · 807
Can you take this card out of your deck with "Adaptable" after you have upgraded most of your deck? — Ponso · 2
Permanent cards can never be removed from your deck. — MindControlMouse · 33
Lets say I want to purchase a new shrivelling(3). Can I just purchase a level 0 and immidiately upgrade it to level 3? If so, that would cost only 3xp with DTRH — Son_of_Gothos · 62

I've been messing around with modernizing my Agnes deck and I feel that this fits very well over the old Arcane Research. She has plenty of upgrades before she starts losing value with it, thus she can accelerate her deck into the 2nd and 3rd scenarios, but maintain the sanity, which for her is a very valuable commodity.

dlikos · 131
This is actually a very strong card for Parallel Agnes, who can keep the lower level cards in her deck, since you are likely to be building around cards that you'll be able to double (or triple) up on. It can also help with her reduced deck size, as you'll be getting the higher xp versions faster. For example you may consider only doing a 1 of Deny Existence 0 and then using DtRH to level it up in scenario 2 and again in scenario 3 so you now have 3 x Deny Existence taking up one deck slot and costing 8 xp. — Time4Tiddy · 240
Sorry typing too fast - Deny Existence would be 2 slots, but you can do this trick with Ward of Protection to get 3 x Wards taking up one deck slot. Level the 0 to 2 and then level to 2 to 5, total spend 5 xp and 3 x Wards taking one deck slot. — Time4Tiddy · 240

Exile states "If exiling 1 or more cards would reduce your deck below your investigator's deck size, when purchasing cards between scenarios, you must purchase cards so that a legal deck size is maintained (when purchasing cards in this manner, you may purchase level 0 cards for 0 experience cost until a legal deck size is reached)."

But purchasing cards for 0 xp is still purchasing a new card, and thus has its cost increased to 1, right? So what if you have fewer xp than missing cards in your deck?

drensley · 5
If you don't have the XP, you definitely get the new level 0 cards for free. No way, the game lets you play with a deck below your investigator's deck size. The more interesting question is, if the ruling for "Exile" lets you purchase new cards for free, even if you would have the XP to spare. "When purchasing cards in this manner" might even overcome the general ability on DtRH, but I'm not sure about that and would not play that way until there is clarification. — Susumu · 351
You have to take Down the Rabbit Hole at deck creation, which means that if you have Exile cards you will have spent +1 XP each for the exile effects themselves. Getting the fill in the holes for free seems pretty reasonable, in that light. You're still paying more than you normally would for your respec. — OrionJA · 1
Not necessarily. A Test of Will, Leather Coat and Mr. Pawterson each have their (non-exile) level 0 version. — Susumu · 351

More a Question for a FaQ

lets say I have a legal starting deck with bloodpact, but then, upgrade it to bloodpact (3), would down the Rabbit hole trigger when I add a new card to fill out the one that has been lost? in addition would this only trigger with level 0 cards or could I sneak in a level 3 card in without paying any extra?

The rule say if you fill up your deck you can purchase new level 0 card for free. If you purchase a higher level card you have definitely pay the additional point of experience. For new level 0 card I suppose it depends on how you interpret the grim rule. Technically this card says you have to pay the additional point of xp (if you have at least one) for every level 0 card you purchase to fill your deck. — Tharzax · 1
I think you wouldn't need to pay one more to fill with a level 0 card, as you are not technically purchasing a new card, just filling adding a new one so your deck has the minimum number of cards, but if you were actively purchasing a higher level card, then you'd need to pay the extra 1xp. — Gsayer · 1
According to the rule for deckbuilding you actively have to purchase the cards. There is an exception for the costs that says if you do so to complete your deck your are able to purchase the new level 0 cards for 0 xp. So from the wording of DtRH the costs increase since the effect of cards need to be resolved if they can. Compare the rules for abilities and deckbuilding. — Tharzax · 1
The grim rule is only a temporary solution to speed up the game if you can’t find a rule, it’s not for deckbuilding — Django · 4972
The words seem clear but I didnt see the question in the FAQ. DTRH specifies "cards you upgrade" for costing less, so it inclues customisation. BUT, it says that "the new card you purchase" cost 1 more, meaning that should excluse customisations, since they are not new cards. Would that be a loophole to spend extra xp without the drawback or am I missing something? — Beta · 1
Sorry, was meant as a new question and I can't delete this.... oups! — Beta · 1

I really misread the card and now I can't delete this useless post.... if someone can, please do it.

Beta · 1

Response related to the DtRH, received July 2023. I've submitted them back then, but they haven't made it here. So putting it into Reviews so it is public information.

Intro: How does Down the Rabbit Hole interact with upgrading customizable card and with getting new copy of the card as part of it.

  • Let's assume Power Word is the only card I am upgrading.
  • Let's assume I upgrade PW, three checkboxes for Thrice Spoken.
  • DtRH affects PW as per: "Spending experience points on one or more upgrades for a customizable card already in an investigator’s deck is considered to be “upgrading” a card for the purposes of card effects."

Q1: Without DtRH that would be 3 XP but because of DtRH it will be 2 XP not 1XP (per ruling from different question/answer via this platform) you can use only one instance of effect of the DtRH on Customizable card, even if you have 2+ copies of the card in your deck. Is this correct?

Q2: As part of this upgrade, I want to get 3rd copy of Power Word.

  • Normally this would cost no XP as per: "An investigator may directly purchase one or more copies of a new customizable card with one or more upgrades by spending only the amount of experience points required to purchase those upgrades. (Doing so counts as purchasing a new card, not upgrading an existing card.)"
  • But DtRH states: "Increase the experience cost for you to purchase new cards by 1."

*I pay "only" 2 XP (referring to Q1 assumption) for the upgrade and purchase card but then DtRH kicks in again making it +1 XP. Is this correct: Final cost for Power Word gaining Thrice Spoken and adding extra copy to deck (with DtRH) is 3 XP.

A1: Yes; even with extra copies of Power Word in your deck, DTRH can only apply its discount to Power Word once between : scenarios. You would spend 2 XP, one time, to upgrade Power Word this way.

(!!!) A2: When you unlock Thrice Spoken, it counts as an “upgrade” to Power Word, and you can add the additional copy of Power Word to your deck without spending additional XP—you’d simply swap the third Power Word with a different card. You aren’t “purchasing” a new copy of Power Word.

I'm confused about the interaction between DtRH and Shrewd Analysis and couldn't find an answer.

What happens if my first upgrade in between scenarios is an untranslated card and I choose to trigger Shrewd Analysis. Will it consume the second XP reduction of DtRH since I upgraded two cards even though the second one cost 0? I assume it would as 0 XP is still a value and could therefore be reduced (even though it wouldn't make a difference as there is no negative XP cost). However, the wording on the card being "no XP cost" makes it sound like there is no cost involved at all. Yet you still upgraded two cards and DtRH only reduces the XP cost of the first two upgraded cards by 1.

So what's right here?

Crafty · 1
I'm not sure about the answer, but it wouldn't make a difference if you use DtRH to upgrade another card first and then use it together with Shrewd Analysis as the second upgrade, as Shrewd Analysis doesn't say anything about the order you need to upgrade them. — Gsayer · 1