Card Reviews · ArkhamDB

I wonder how this interacts with Stealth. When you trigger the reaction here you have basically one card that tells you "do" and another one that tells you "do not" for the same effect. Neither card has the wording "cannot" (for this effect), so they have the same priority.

Grim Interpretation: You get +1 and the card draw from the successful evasion, but neither do you disengage from the enemy, nor does it exhaust. Why would you do that? To trigger Delilah O'Rourke in one of the player windows during the skill test and to draw a card.

Reasonable Interpretation: "do not" does not force you to do something, you are just not doing it. So when String Along tells you not to disengage, you don't, but since Stealth tells you to disengage, you eventually do.

Chill Interpretation: Two contradicting effects with the same timing - if the game doesn't choose for you, simply do it yourself. If you want to disengage, do, if you don't, don't. Backed by the Silver Rule: arkhamdb.com

Let the hate flow through you in the comments!

EDIT

I have added a link to the Silver Rule: arkhamdb.com to the Chill Interpretation, which might actually be the answer.

Probably Intended Interpretation: Although it is not (reminder text) (see Kicking the Hornet's Nest, for example), they could have omitted the "disengage with it" clause from Stealth without changing the card, since disengaging from an enemy is the default effect of a successful evade. Therefore, you could argue for the Grim Interpretation and Piegura's comment. The Golden Rules (https://arkhamdb.com/rules#The_Golden_Rules) is also in favor of this interpretation.

5/15/25

AlderSign · 407

Counterpoint: Stealth specifies that, until the end of the turn, that enemy "cannot" engage you. Therefore, I would rule that you must prioritize Stealth over String Along in order to fulfill the "cannot" clause. — NightgauntTaxiService · 463 5/15/25

Better find another way to draw a card for free? — Tharzax · 1 5/15/25

Hi!! I'd say that: — Piegura · 7 5/16/25

On the successful evade action -> You don't disengage for String Along (even if Stealth would let You) - The enemy doesn't exhaust (for Stealth) - And, oh yeah: You draw 1 card. — Piegura · 7 5/16/25

As a result: You are in the same situation as before the evade action = engaged with the enemy, but with 1 more card (and 1 less action in this turn) in your hand. So basically You spent 1 action to test to draw 1 card without the opportunity attack of the enemy engaged with You. :-D — Piegura · 7 5/16/25

Updated the review after some digging in the rules. — AlderSign · 407 5/16/25

Piegura is correct. The two texts don’t directly contradict each other because Stealth is the action you initiate and then String Along is a reaction that modified it. — Eudaimonea · 5 5/16/25

And also the enemy can't engage you but he already is. — Tharzax · 1 5/16/25

@Eudaimonea: What action comes "first" is irrelevant; here you have two ABILITIES that both initiate an effect that resolves at the same timing point (the step during the skill test). Since they tell you A and not-A, that's a contradiction. — AlderSign · 407 5/16/25

I wasn’t really saying it mattered which one came first. You initiate an action, which is obviously legal and has clear effects. Then you take a reaction to modify the initial action in a certain way—in this case to subtract one of its effects. This is also legal and leaves you in a position where the successful evasion achieves very little. — Eudaimonea · 5 5/17/25

Ah, I see what you mean. But that's not how the resolution works. String Along doesn't modify Stealth, they both modify an evasion attempt. That's two different effects. The reaction ability just adds an effect. The part(s) of both effects in question relate to the exact same timing point during the skill test ("if successful"). That way, you could actually compare it to commiting both Perception and Deduction to a skill test, making you choose the order in which they resolve on success. — AlderSign · 407 5/17/25

Oh, I’ve been referring to Stealth (0) because that’s the one you (probably inadvertently) linked, but you’re referring to Stealth (3). I think you have a better argument for choosing the effects than I originally believed actually, when I consider your point about identical timing. You said one thing slightly inaccurately, which is that technically, “after you successfully evade” is ST.6, but you’re right that Stealth clearly intends to modify the result of successful evasion, which occurs at ST. So perhaps it’s best to interpret Stealth as a “replacement effect,” as described in the RR. String Along is worded to resolve at ST.7, but it can’t reasonably be read to add an additional effect to that step, such as cards like Perception do, or else you could choose first to exhaust and disengage the enemy per standard evasion rules and then to draw the card from String Along. So it’s probably best to think of String Along as a replacement effect. So your choice to use Stealth and then String Along is basically a replacement effect followed by a replacement effect. Upon consideration, I think you have a strong argument for being able to choose their order and get the best of both worlds. — Eudaimonea · 5 5/18/25

Which version of Stealth we are talking about should not make a difference, because the timing point is determined by the effect, not the cost (the action). Hm, I must disagree with the replacement effect interpretation: they are always signaled by the word "instead", which is missing on both cards here and makes the whole thing so confusing (see https://arkhamdb.com/rules#Instead). Where did I say "after"? The indicator for the timing point here would be "if", which is between "when" and "after" (https://arkhamdb.com/rules#If), but with skill tests it should "add" the effect(s) to the results in ST.7, like you said. — AlderSign · 407 5/19/25

I agree that the version of Stealth actually doesn't matter. I found it curious that you took exception to my comment that "Stealth is the action you initate and then String Along is a reaction that modifies it." I was trying to steel man your issue with that statement, which I believe to be correct. As to the replacement effect idea, maybe you're right that Stealth isn't. I'm just trying to find a way to your rationale. It seems obvious to me that I could initiate the Burglary investigation and then take an (imaginary) reaction during the first timing window that said "Don't gain resources during this test, but gain an additional clue. Draw 1 card if this investigation succeeds." Burglary would lock me out of the clue and the reaction would lock me out of the money, but I could still Eureka! or whatever and draw the card from the reaction and whatever else I committed--the Rex Murphy bonus clue or whatnot. At no point in there would there be a contradiction, and that's the exact situation you're asking about here re-skinned as an evasion. For contradiction, you really would need two effects trying to do opposite things at the same time, as we both state above. While my use of the word "aftter" was unfortunate and inaccurate, the major error I was and am emphasizing is your repeated misstatement that "Here you have two ABILITIES that both initiate an effect that resolves at the same timing point (the step during the skill test)." Then later, "The part(s) of both effects in question relate to the exact same timing point during the skill test ('if successful')." This is not correct. Stealth reacts to "if you successfully evade," which believe it or not is explicitly stated in the RR as a different timing point from "if you succeed." The former is ST.6, and the latter is ST.7. My post above identifies a problem with applying the text as written and imagines them instead as replacement effects. If they were not that, as I mention above, you would apply String Along's "exhaust and do not disengage" and "draw 1 card" at ST.6, then apply Stealth's "disengage but do not exhaust" at ST.7 and you would get the best of both. That seems unreasonable to me, so I suggested reading Stealth as a replacement effect. Again, to be clear, I am not concerned with the difference between "when / if / after," but rather with the following timing rule: "Skill Test Results and Advanced Timing (added in FAQ, section 'Game Play', point 1.7) During Step 7 of Skill Test Timing ("Apply skill test results"), all of the effects of the successful skill test are determined and resolved, one at a time. This includes the effects of the test itself (such as the clue discovered while investigating, or the damage dealt during an attack), as well as any "If this test is successful..." effects from card abilities or skill cards committed to the test. Reactions or Forced abilities with a triggering condition dependent upon the skill test being successful or unsuccessful (such as "After you successfully investigate," or "After you fail a skill test by 2 or more") do not trigger at this time. These abilities are triggered during Step 6, "Determine success/failure of skill test." That is the rule that explicitly declares these two cards do not resolve at the same time. — Eudaimonea · 5 5/19/25

Interesting, I read your statement about action/reaction differently. Thanks for clarifying. Good example with Burglary. While I agree in the meanwhile that those two effects don't directly contradict with another, but only because you can choose the order in which they resolve anyway - during ST.7. Yes, I don't see an indicator for something happening at ST.6 here, even, or, because of the FAQ you cited; "If you succeed" from String Along is NOT a triggering condition - at least not for the ability, which is what the FAQ states and I think the point you are making. If it would be, it would come before the colon (":"). See here: https://arkhamdb.com/rules#Abilities_Triggered — AlderSign · 407 5/21/25

Allow me to trim the quote for clarity: “triggering condition(s) … such as "After you successfully investigate” … trigger during Step .” That is the exact wording of Stealth. — Eudaimonea · 5 5/22/25

I left off the number 6 from the previous post. You get the idea. — Eudaimonea · 5 5/22/25

I get what you want to say, but it doesn't apply here. The "triggering condition" you are talking about would be stated before the ":" of the ability, which in neither the case with Stealth, nor with String Along. — AlderSign · 407 5/22/25

The triggering condition for String Along is "When you attempt to evade an enemy" and for Stealth (3) it is "During your turn" (Stealth (0) doesn't have one). — AlderSign · 407 5/22/25

You would have a case for Lucky Cigarette Case, though. — AlderSign · 407 5/22/25

I take your correction on the "triggering condition" and related timing issue. I see why a strict reading would lead you to think this effect resolves at the same time as Perception. As you mention a few comments above, if we read it literally like that, we can choose to apply first the "exhaust but don't disengage," then the "disengage but don't exhaust," just as with Perception you can choose to first gain the clue from successful investigation then the card from Perception or vice versa. I will reiterate that such a reading seems unreasonable to me. We probably should read this as an example of inconsistent templating. Both Stealth and especially String Along should probably be read to say, "The evasion does not disengage" and "the evasion does not exhaust," to make it clear that these cards are intended to modify the outcome of the evasion itself, not to apply separate effects that the rulebook explicitly declares are to be ordered one at a time and can be done so to maximize player benefit. It's probably abusing the card to read it as adding a fact, rather than subtracting an effect. Anyway, we seem to be in agreement that if playing Deduction does not create a Silver Rule conflict with Burglary, activating String Along does not create a Silver Rule conflict with Stealth. The only question is whether they're an ultimate wombo combo or an almost complete nonbo. I argue it's only reasonable to conclude the latter. — Eudaimonea · 5 5/22/25

Ah, yeah - if we talk about design intent and balancing we're in uncertainty land again IMO. I think we can leave it at that and pray this review doesn't get likes so this wall of text stays at the bottom :) One other thing about String Along: If you have 2 in play and trigger both, you already gain more benefit than the sum of both effects (because the drawbacks only apply once, but the bonus does so twice). — AlderSign · 407 5/23/25

I hate to extent an already massive dialogue, but I will add that if we don’t talk about intent and apply the timing rules that you have suggested, Stealth should always both evade and disengage, as should this card. You would choose whether to resolve the standard effects of evasion first, or the effect of String Along / Stealth. That is already uncertainty land and also clearly abusive. We can’t escape factoring designer intent. — Eudaimonea · 5 5/25/25

This card is absolutely ridiculous. It's not just a permanent Premonition, it's more like a permanent Will to Survive. Why it's only limited to "once per phase" I have no clue (pun not intended).

Here's why this thing is more than just Premonition. While Premonition can grab anything ─ Auto-fail, nasty symbols, "draw another token"-tokens like blurses ─ this thing will grab only good tokens. Not only that, once it has a good token, it's really not that hard to keep that good token... FOREVER.

Here's what a typical game looked like when I was playing Agatha Crane for the first time:

Draw Ocula Obscura, make happy noises because you'll no longer have to deal with the chaos bag soon.
Play Ocula Obscura, and use Eyes of the Dreamer to fish out a good token, let's say 0.
Next mythos phase, draw any non-combat test, automatically succeed and immediately seal your 0 again.
Investigate any 4 or lower shroud location, automatically succeed and immediately seal 0 once again.
Keep yourself busy with any of the many (testless) events you're playing anyway because your name is Agatha like Preposterous Sketches, Deep Knowledge, Guidance, Cosmic Revelation, Extensive Research, Blood-Rite, Drawn to the Flame (probably do this one before no. 4 in case of a test)...
Repeat from no. 3 next turn.

Heck, you don't even need to play any stat boosters or skills anymore (I sure didn't), because you can literally succeed at anything that's not combat! This leaves so much room to add many events to your deck which leads to incredibly flexiblity on top of your ability.

My team was astounded by how ridiculously easy the game suddenly became for me. "Oh no! We have to do this difficult Will test of 5, what do we do!" Oh, let me just hop over there and commit a single willpower icon from one of the many events, which I can immediately play anyway later with my ability, and re-seal that 0 for good measure.

Even if you lose that 0 because you just HAD to do 2 tests this phase (PHASE) or drew one of the extremely rare combat test encounters, it's laughably easy to get it back and repeat the cycle all over again next turn.

5/13/25

Nenananas · 271

Kohaku is back. — MrGoldbee · 1493 5/13/25

Oh my god, you are right. I didn't realize you can use the reaction ability for the token released by the forced effect. What were they thinking? — AlderSign · 407 5/13/25

Shards of the Void says hi, by the way. — AlderSign · 407 5/13/25

Admittedly, I can see two ways we might've misinterpreted this card (they better clear that up in the next FAQ): you can't reseal the token on this card because 1. resolve ≠ reveal, or 2. the token has not yet been released from this card in time to trigger the reaction ability — Nenananas · 271 5/14/25

If you go through the steps of the skill test timing from the framework it is really clear that you can. — AlderSign · 407 5/14/25

Here's one reason why it might not work - Ocula Obscura directs you to resolve the sealed token and then release it, which could mean it goes back into the bag right then, not at the end of the test. And then it's no longer around to be re-sealed after the test succeeds. — TheNameWasTaken · 3 5/14/25

You mean because of that ruling that says you can't access/find a card that goes into the deck (FAQ here: https://arkhamdb.com/card/60324)? — AlderSign · 407 5/15/25

(If so, then I don't see how that FAQ would be applicable here, because the released chaos token is certainly not "in a place where its position is impossible to determine". "Impossible" is a questionable formulation to begin with, but in opposition to a card deck, tokens in the chaos bag don't even have a sense of order or positioning. — AlderSign · 407 5/15/25

Scratch all of that, I see my error now: The "reveal" step is replaced, but no token is actually revealed. — AlderSign · 407 5/15/25

Seems this could also be valuable on Hard/Expert, combined with Olive McBride or Rod Of Carnemagos, to fish out and lock up the -6/-8 token forever. — HanoverFist · 755 5/19/25

"After you succeed at a skill test, _if no tokens are sealed here_" and "[r]esolve the token sealed here instead, _then_ release that token". I don't think you can reseal the token. — heikkip · 2 5/22/25

ugh you're right how did I miss that — HanoverFist · 755 5/22/25

Blood of K'n-yan

Enchanted Bow

String Along

Talisman of Protection

Ocula Obscura